Date:     7/15/98
Subject:  Empyrean Meeting
Present:  Andromache, Appolonia, Astraea, Cepheus, Damian, Dante,
          Diana, Elidi, Eris, Liora, Minowee, Mnemosyne,
          Pantoleon, Raziel, Shadow, Tiberius
Topics:   "Dark" Empyreans, Elitism vs. Equality, RP for new
          Empyreans, Empys as drug addicts, possible TPs,
          molting, wings/flight, etc.
Note:     I edited out much of the irrelevant/spammy chatter.

Astraea starts logging. Anyone have a subject they want to bring
up? Like I said, this is informal, but do try to cut back on the
spam. If things start getting too confusing, I'll have y'all
begin to raise your hands and take turns.

Dante raises his hand right away. "I guess I'll kick off, then."

Astraea says,  "Shoot, Dante."

Dante says, "Darkies. Too many. Even if all of the world's
population of dark Empyreans are being played and live in Haven,
we've enough for that--we're at the extreme limit. I was talking
with Raziel about this, and we thought they ought to be
restricted from now on. We're simply at capacity. With only
70-some Empys out there and ten or more dark, it's just too high
a percentage. We're supposed to be -rare-.""

Damian thought they were restricted now?

Astraea nods to Dante. Good point. I s'pose I could make folks
app for it, the same way they have to apply for halfbreeds and
whatnot.

Dante says, "Being such rarities, there ought to be something
keeping it rare. Otherwise the entire concept of it could
collapse, along with the sentiment of Empyrean so-called purity.
How many tainted bloodlines -are- there, after all?"

Dante says, "I just thought it might be good to have them app,
same as 'breeds. More realistic."

Astraea nods to Dante. Sounds do-able, certainly. Y'all in
agreement?

Elidi says, "Sounds good to me, bosslady."

Liora nods...

Pantoleon notes, "However, note that I would think they'd ALL be
here so as to avoid persecution in Civitas Dei, or at least a
good chunk of them. However, we full-blooded Empys would rather
not come here, right?

Minowee notes that Haven is a good place to come for some
righteous looking-down-ones-nose.

Elidi says, "Amen, sister!"

Diana nods.

Astraea says,  "Full-blooded Empys probably do look down their
nose at Haven, as a general rule. Anyway, I'll make a note o'
that. Anyone else want to broach a subject?"

Dante nods to Pantoleon and Star. "A'course. That makes sense.
But we've gotten to the point where that's still applicable."

Pantoleon has a related one, I guess.

Diana is curious a bit about the bloodlines if she may. "It just
seems like everyone is related to everyone. It makes it a bit
difficult for someone who is not related to anyone."

Astraea says,  "Those are just the noble houses, Diana. There are
plenty of 'middle class' type Empys, whose bloodlines are far
more scattered."

Dante mmms. "Yeah, the inbreeding's all well and good, but even
-I've- got relatives. I think it speaks to Empyrean society that
the nobles all know their bloodlines and House histories and
relations, and the rest of us don't."

Astraea notes there are more noble houses than the ones in the
+faction/list, btw. But I'd prefer not to make anymore active
factions, since 5 is plenty for now.

Astraea says,  "What was your subject, Pantoleon?"

Diana nods.

Shadow has arrived.

Pantoleon says, "It just struck me that as we monitor the
dark/normal Empys for balance, keeping tabs on the snooty vs the
cantweallgetalong Emps might not be bad either, since the same
sort of imbalance in numbers should exist."

Astraea waves to Shadow. Howdy. We pretty much just started. Make
yourself comfy. ;)

Shadow does just that, then. ;)

Dante says, "Makes sense. I've not really even seen any kind of
Seraph organization."

Astraea hmms to Pantoleon. That's not as easily done, though. I
mean, every Empy is going to have his/her individual opinion. I
don't want to restrict players in that regard by saying 'no, your
char can't think that way.'

Liora wonders at what point, however, we start dictating what
each Empyrean-wannabe will be.

Liora says, "As Star just said :)"

Dante nods fervently. "We can't go that far. We're not Aether's
Nazis, after all."

Astraea nods to Liora. I want folks to understand that the *norm*
is that elitist/snobby attitude, but it doesn't mean they *have*
to think that way. That make sense?

Appolonia enters the grand hall from the branches of the World
Ash beyond.

Dante says, "So long as that's well-stressed, I don't think we
need to worry."

Shadow says, "In a lot of ways, tho, it seems like more people
want to play the exception to the rule."

Astraea waves to Apple. Siddown, get comfy. We just started a
short while ago.

Pantoleon agrees, "I just thought it should be monitored as well,
if just to raise awareness if naught else...

Andromache amens that. We have so many exceptions we don't have
many rules left.

Appolonia nods in agreement with that one :)

Raziel enters the grand hall from the branches of the World Ash
beyond.

Dante says, "Everyone wants to be 'special'."

Shadow says, "Exactly."

Astraea nods. Well, I plan to add some additions to the web/news
files soon, based on our 'quotes' on the Miscellaneous board.
There, I plan to explain what the general opinion of each race
is, about themselves and others. That should help.

Shadow says, "Like the stereotypes a given race has for the
others?"

Astraea nods to Shadow.

Dante grins. "Can't go using 'em all, then. Heh."

Astraea notes for the latecomers that this meeting is fairly
informal. Our current topic is the 'elitist' attitude vs. the
'let's all be friends' one. If you have something to say, feel
free to speak up.

Appolonia says, "Hey, you can be elitist and polite, too :)"

Elidi says, "But who would want to be? ;)"

Astraea says,  "At any rate, until those news/web files are in
place, feel free to instruct new players on what the 'norm'
is--especially if they're going against it."

Appolonia says, "Its not like you have to be obnoxious about it
:)"

Damian smiles, "I would"

Raziel is with Appolonia. Being elitist, and being polite. After
all, we're the only civilized race -- we should act it.

Appolonia nods.

Mnemosyne enters the grand hall from the branches of the World
Ash beyond.

Astraea says,  "For the most part, the 'let's all get along'
attitude should be somewhat rare--or at least not spoken of as
much. It would be more prevalent than normal here in Haven, of
course, but around the more 'traditional' Empyreans, folks who
subscribe to that view would want to be subtle about it. I mean,
think of this like the pre-Civil War south. Empyreans would have
the same view toward their sympathetic brethren as die-hard
Confederates would to abolitionists."

Appolonia nods.

Appolonia says, "That's how I look at it."

Elidi says, "That's why Damaris and I probably don't get along at
the family barbecue."

Raziel realizes he just now popped in, and perhaps I'm missing
the point of this point... but my opinion from the news files is
that we're mostly elitist, as a people, with a few 'enlightened
souls' which, personally, I think is the most RP rich.

Appolonia says, "Lots of pre-War Southerners felt that their
slaves NEEDED them to take care of them."

Appolonia says, "It was considered a benevolent dictatorship,
like parent to child."

Astraea nods to Appolonia. Right. Empyreans probably feel that
the other races are *necessary*, but they're certainly not on the
same level.

Appolonia says, "Exactly. They need our guidance. We have no need
to trumpet our superiority to the heavens. After all, we're
already there. :)"

Diana nods and agrees with the philosophy, "I know Diana has a
bit more relaxed view on the matter, but she has come to expect
the criticism, and feels highly off guard when she encounters a
friendly Empyrean."

Raziel has always liked the ante-bellum south illustration.
Raziel, after all, is a proper south'n gentleman. Personally, I
think it gives us a touch of class. ;)

Astraea says,  "Btw, even those who are 'enlightened' would carry
strains of that arrogant attitude. They feel they need to 'guide'
the other races--but there's still some of that condescension
there."

Appolonia says, "Well of course. But they don't have to do it
CONSCIOUSLY. :)"

Appolonia says, "You just 'assume' the half-breed in the room is
there to fetch you a glass of water. :)"

Elidi grins at Dante.

Elidi says, "I'm thirsty, sugar."

Minowee fetches Apple an-- Hey!

Appolonia grins.

Liora has noted that she doesn't really get enough of that
attitude from Empyreans.

Appolonia thinks she's done that to Minowee a few times. ;)

Appolonia says, "In private of course, we can rip on them to our
hearts content. :)"

Astraea says,  "At any rate, it seems we're all pretty much in
agreement about this. Feel free to both RP that attitude out with
new people, as well as inform them OOCly--especially new
Empyreans."

Andromache gives that attitude to darkies. Just ask Dante.

Appolonia laughs. Darkies. Oh lordee.

Raziel considers most of the wingless ones about the same. Except
the Varati, of course, whose small-minded rebellion against the
natural order caused the destruction of the Golden age. They're
not really fit for being made back into slaves... but the others
are.

Dante whees. "But excepting Elidi and Andi, I never really -get-
the attitude. People're too bloody nice. Though Argivus was nice
as corrupt law enforcement...

Astraea says,  "If we can, I'd like to move along to another
subject--namely, ways of getting new Empyreans involved in RP.
I'm afraid there hasn't been as much going on around the
Palladium as I'd like. Anyone have any suggestions for ways of
getting things going there?"

Appolonia thinks a nice wedding would do the trick. ;)

Andromache says, "Less nobles, more peons?"

Pantoleon thinks a certain daughter needs to get married. :-)

Appolonia says, "Also getting them grafted onto the family tree
:)"

Diana agrees with Andromache.

Elidi is just getting started, but seems to have generated some
RP with her lil incident.

Andromache grins. 'Incident' doesn't start to describe it.

Dante says, "Well, most of our middle class would be firmly
rooted in our city."

Astraea says,  "Well, we'll be overrun with nobles if we have
*too* many folks 'grafted' onto the family trees. There should be
more middle-class types. Although they can have relatives just
like anyone else. I mean, if you want to be related to someone,
feel free to work out a background with new players. Many of them
would be happy to have some 'instant' RP with family."

Liora has never had any problems with RP... but then, I've only
once set foot in the Palladium.

Raziel was hoping for a wedding himself, and tying a couple
houses together. But I don't think that'd generate a lot of RP. I
mean, it'd give one great scene... but those sort of things seem
to get out of hand, and very little insightful RP actually
happens at them, and then it winds down and is over.

Astraea says,  "Andromache has a very extensive family tree.
There's no reason only nobles get to trace their heritage. ;)"

Andromache says, "Yeah. So there."

Diana thinks we need to break out of our circles.

Dante says, "I've never been to the Empyrean quarter, myself."

Liora thinks it's just the nobles that are obsessed with it ;)

Appolonia grins.

Astraea says,  "Any ideas for ways of getting Empyreans 'out and
about,' Diana? They need some excuses to leave the Palladium and
'mingle with the common folk.'"

Appolonia says, "Spying :)"

Appolonia says, "We need to know what the opinion of the other
races is on the current tensions in the city."

Astraea says,  "Perhaps the Empys ought to deal with the other
races some more. Everyone else has official ambassador types, it
seems. The Empys are lacking that."

Appolonia says, "Every citizen needs to do his or her part. :)"

Raziel, personally, is shocked that the death of Justinius seems
to have faded from people's memory. Of all the PC Empyreans I've
ever met, only Nicodemus would even be likely to even *remember*
the Empyre before Justinius. He's murdered and.... *shrug*

Andromache notes that I have tried to revive that with an alt but
haven't had much luck.

Astraea nods to Raziel. The death ought to still be in folks'
minds, yeah.

Appolonia hrms.

Liora says, "There's quite often something happening in the
Rialto, if you hang out there long enough. And even Empyreans
ought to be able to find a reason to go there."

Astraea nods to Liora. True. There's also the Pantheon, the
Scriptorium... the coliseum (I'd still love to have a gladiator
event there).

Raziel says, "What do you mean by ambassadors? I'm thinking
Damaris was said to be the ambassador to the Varati, and Raziel
now to the Atlanteans. We don't have any ambassadors running
around the Palladium, though...."

Diana nods, "Actually it might help if we began routine visits to
other races. After all, Empyreans believe themselves the superior
race, wouldn't it seem fit that they would check upon the various
activities of other races. Forewarned is forearmed.

Eris enters the grand hall from the branches of the World Ash
beyond.

Astraea says,  "Okay. Beefing up the Praetorian Guard would also
help. The PG is s'posed to be almost as prominent as the Hounds.
I'd like to see those two butt heads more often."

Appolonia nods.

Diana nods and salutes, "At your service, though I am not really
sure what I am supposed to do within the guard."

Dante deals almost exclusively with other races, but I think it's
true we need something to drag Palladium's folk outside to play."

Appolonia hrms.

Shadow believes that the basic pretense of the Praetorian is the
police of the Empyre and its citizens..

Andromache says, "Now Elidi's going to go beat up Cepheus or
something.."

Damian smiles, "Problem with that is I'm related to the hound
leader :)"

Appolonia says, "Ooh. Tensions!"

Appolonia says, "That smells like RP to me :)"

Raziel doesn't see it happening. Our player base isn't quite
large enough for many factions smaller than race-level to be a
major force, and Stavros is ICly so friendly. He's a peach,
really. :)

Astraea says,  "And more interaction with Delphi. As the
government of the city, they'd probably hear from the Empyre more
often."

Elidi says, "I -do- want to spar with Cepheus."

Eris says, "I'm relatively new, and I still don't quite get it,
the Palladium... can /any/ Empyrean go in there, or only certain
ones, and if the latter... which?"

Dante says, "Tensions between Praetorians and Hounds. I like
that."

Minowee says, "Anyone's allowed into the Palladium. Heck, Min
goes in there and she's a dirty halfbreed."

Astraea says,  "All Empys can go there, Eris. The Palladium is
the Empyrean embassy. It's where they all hang out."

Raziel says, "Cepheus is a peach, too. Hounds and Hawks are too
friendly for there to suddenly be a lot of head butting."

Shadow says, "Stavros ain't friendly if you get on his bad side,
from what I've seen."

Damian thinks more 'inter-agency' co-operation?

Astraea says,  "So we get some lower-level types who *aren't* as
friendly."

Eris will just ask random clueless questions seeing as how she
doesn't recognize these other people being discussed. "Okay. The
+terms says it's a 'headquarters', and talks about guests needing
invitations."


Raziel says, "Then we need lower-level types, and that, at its
base, means -- recruit more Empyreans."

Appolonia says, "Guests meaning 'non-Emps' :)"

Minowee is also close personal friend to the Emperor. :P

Astraea says,  "If you're an Empyrean, you're free to come and go
(unless you're 'dark' or wingless or something). If you're
non-Empyrean, it's best to get an invitation, though there are no
guards to throw you out if you don't have one."

Dante says, "Low-class -normal- Empyreans--support for the main
concept."

Astraea says,  "Er, that is, there are guards, but they're not as
strict as, say, at Atesh-Gah (Varati embassy)."

Eris is a lower level type! <waves a wing>

Shadow says, "But never doubt you're being watched. ;)"

Eris says, "Oh. Normal. D'oh! ;)"

Dante grins at Eris. "We freaks have to stick to good old
Bordertown."

Dante says, "We belong in the slummy ghettos like all the other
dregs of society. Need more folk to tell us that, too.""

Andromache volunteers!

Raziel raps on the table. "Alright, children...."

Astraea says,  "Folks? Please use table-talk for spam and
whatnot? I have to edit this log later. :P"

Appolonia says, "What's this we stuff, darkboy? You got a mouse
in your pocket? ;)"

Shadow says, "As much as he's a prick, ICly, and I hate to say
this, but we need more people with Cassius's attitude in the
Emps. ;)"

Tiberius enters the grand hall from the branches of the World Ash
beyond.

Astraea says,  "Okay, so where were we? Recruiting more
Empyreans--more 'lower level' types (i.e. non-nobles), thinking
of ways to get 'em introduced into RP more... other comments?"

Elidi waves her hand. She fits that description.

Diana says, "We need to have more interaction within the PG
itself."

Pantoleon grins, "Cassius is outrightly rude, however. Some of us
prefer to be aloof, superior, yet vaguely polite.

Astraea nods. Right. And recruiting more Praetorians. Btw,
*anyone* is welcome to recruit/encourage. But to make it
official, you'd have to go to Stavros (or me).

Raziel agrees with Shadow, that we need more bigoted Empyreans.
Raziel fits that description, but he's ICly had to majorly tone
down how vocal he is in them. A high level of racism gives us
tension. As for recruiting more Empyreans for non-noble
positions. Yes, it's important. But we've got a lot of Empyreans
already. Surely someone can come up with an idea to get the ones
that already exist active?

Astraea says,  "Well, give 'em more things to do. Anyone got any
plot-ideas?"

Pantoleon thinks more direction from on high would be nice.

Andromache raises a hand and notes that a lot of plots I've
seen/been involved in seem to fizzle out a lot due to
non-participation. So if someone's going to start something, make
sure you can finish it.

Dante nods. "Kudos to Raz and Andi and Elidi and everyone being
bigoted. It's hard, but it's necessary."

Astraea would still like to have a gladiator combat as a
one-night event. That's not a TP, really, but it's something to
do.

Elidi says, "YES!"

Dante says, "Pay me, and I'm in. :)"

Damian thinks more interaction between the current noble set
would be good. How about 'find-a-worthy-mate' type parties. after
all the younger nobles are supposed to be breeding stock.

Appolonia says, "Oooh, Star!"

Appolonia gets an idear.

Diana thinks perhaps even open sparring among Hawks and hounds.

Appolonia says, "We need a nice NPC Don King. :)"

Appolonia says, "Battle of the Races?"


Elidi whispers to Appolonia, "Ishmael".

Diana says, "What if we hold a competition, a best of the best so
to speak. Hounds vs. Hawks?"

Astraea nods to Apple. Could be interesting. :)

Appolonia says, "Pit Empyrean champions against Varati warlords,
that kind of thing?"

Raziel suggests that the best way to stir up non-nobles may be
with adding nobles. Hunt for people to take on Damaris and
Lysander. If we get good politics going inside the Empyreans, as
any good player of Damaris could do against Cassius or Lysander,
even Raziel to a lesser extent -- we could get people to want to
jump in.

Appolonia says, "Rigging fights, glamorous outfits for the show,
lots of blood and gore--faking it ala professional wrestling..."

Mnemosyne says, "Can it be a one-time made player? Like you can
just play that champion once or twice or until it loses?"

Appolonia grins.

Appolonia says, "Right, Mnem."

Appolonia says, "You lose, you die."

Pantoleon nods, "The Emperor and the Aegis need to start causing
political turmoil, or the nobles have little scheming to do. :-)

Eris sees a sudden rash of moronic combat-statted players. O_O

Dante says, "Get back to good old bureaucratic corruption."

Astraea nods to Raziel. Working on that. And a gladiator event
would be a fun thing to do--hopefully we could get more involved
than just Empys.

Elidi says, "I started a lot of political trouble. O:)"

Pantoleon nods to Elidi, "Yea, hopefully that one can mushroom.
:-)

Astraea says,  "Btw, the gladiators don't usually fight to the
death. That's just a *tad* too barbaric. But you can make a
one-time char for that night, sure."

Tiberius wonders if the Emperor could possibly lose something
important in Haven and post a reward for anyone finding it in,
say, the Varati sector? :> Or something?

Shadow whispers "And, of course, we have our own little politics.
;)"

Raziel thinks that 'empyrean champions vs. Varati warlords'
sounds better than it would work. What Varati warlord is going to
fight an empyrean? Look like a weakling if you lose, gain no
honor if you win. They'd likely be aloof from such things. And as
for us, well, it's only profitable for the Empyrean agenda if we
make sure there is no chance of us losing.

Pantoleon isn't going into the Varati sector without the legion
at his back, Tiberius...

Eris suggests a feather-louse plot? ;) (Um, no.)

Minowee powders Eris. o.o

Mnemosyne says, "Oh I always wanted to be in the arena."

Appolonia says, "Bird flu?"

Raziel *does* however, fully think we should get gladiatorial
games going. I just expect that the fighters would be from the
lower classes.

Andromache snickers.

Mnemosyne says, "Or someone..."

Eris takes a powder? :>

Astraea says,  "Personally, I figured that most gladiators would
be mongrels, graisha, and other 'low-life' types. Fighting is all
they know. But gladiator-discussions can wait. :)"

Appolonia says, "We only get a little sick but when it mutates
and gets into the other populations tons of people die and we're
accused of having a healer create it somehow? ;)"

Appolonia says, "Right, Star."

Eris says, "Gosh, that plot sounds familiar. ;)"

Appolonia grins.

Andromache says, "It does?"

Tiberius does NOT like plague plots. They tend to slow down RP to
the point of nonexistence.

Minowee sidles away from Apple.

Dante says, "Dashing, anyhow, if we're near-done."

Astraea hmms. Well, there is a big plot in the works, and I'd
prefer to avoid having two at once. Plus, well, I'm not too fond
o' plague TPs. But I can keep that in mind as a possibility,
should things get stale.

Appolonia nods. Just tossing out ideas.

Appolonia giggles. A plague that turns Empyreans dark-skinned.

Astraea laughs.

Eris says, "On another MUX I'm on, there was a plague plot that
affected one race more than others, and it was created by one of
the factions. And yes, it slowed down RP massively since it put
people into temporary (or 'permanent') comas. Blehhh."

Appolonia says, "No health risk but God, can you IMAGINE?"

Eris says, "Do Empyreans lay eggs? :>"

Dante chuckles. "That'd be wonderful."

Andromache says, "NO!"

Shadow says, "Nope. they have live young."

Andromache says, "No eggs!"

Eris says, "So no DDT plots then..."

Dante says, "Massive salmonella outbreak, even."

Mnemosyne laughs.

Astraea says,  "Nope. We had a debate about that a while back.
Finally decided on live birth."

Appolonia says nothing ;)

Raziel still votes that they're ovoviviparous. ;)

Eris says, "Must be. ;)"

Astraea can't even pronounce that, Raz. :P

Andromache says, "Bless you, Raz."

Appolonia says, "Baby Emps just can't fly."

Appolonia says, "Vestigial wings."

Eris says, "Anybody checked on that? >:)"

Appolonia baps Eris.

Eris gets all quiet and contrite and tries to think of REAL
plots. Hmmmm.

Minowee starts tossing them out windows. "So are baby Emps born
with cauls or something to keep the wings from snagging while
they're coming out?"

Appolonia says, "That'd be interesting."

Minowee says, "That could be an interesting mongrel thing. Steal
an Empyrean caul and dry it, then pull pinches off for good
luck."

Eris says, "Presumably the couple extra limbs wouldn't matter,
they just flatten out as they go."

Astraea hmms. Speaking of flying, perhaps *that's* something that
could provide a little more RP. So far, very few Empys ever use
the sky-rooms. Wings are posed about, but just for effect. I've
only seen one char who really makes her wings a full part of her
identity. That's something to consider. Just *how* much are Empys
tied to the air and to flight?

Raziel points to why he votes for ovo.... you know. ;) Actually,
that'll have to be all worked out. Andro's the first pregnant
Empyrean, ain't she?

Eris says, "I didn't know there WERE sky rooms. How do you get
there? (Fly? Up?)"

Appolonia says, "up."

Shadow says, "Up."

Eris tries to use wings as a bit of body language, but it's not
exactly second-nature.

Astraea nods to Eris. Just type 'up' in any o' the town rooms.

Eris says, "Oooooh."

Minowee says, "What they said. The thing is, Star, is that it's
kind of difficult to hold a meaningful conversation while you're
moving really fast through the air."

Minowee says, "And it just isn't practical for something as large
as a human (even if the average Empy probably doesn't weigh more
than eighty pounds) to hover."

Minowee says, "Or kite, or wha'e'er."

Eris says, "Hmm, yeah, I'd imagine if they were used it would
just be for travel, and for flying overhead you might as well use
a street room?"

Diana says, "What about something dealing with pollutants in the
air?"

Raziel nods. "And all that wing-flapping is tiring. Wings make
nice transportation, but it's hard to do much in the air. Makes
for really dramatic entrances, though.

Astraea nods to Minowee. Good point. I s'pose I was getting at
flight/exploring more. I ought to link/build some sky rooms out
over the woods. But perhaps a daily flight could be a part of an
Empyrean's routine--moreso than it is now.

Elidi says, "Our wings are big enough to kite, I'd think."

Pantoleon notes that the sky 'rooms' should be considered
*large*, "It takes awhile to get across that one room.

Dante uses wings in RP as much as any other limbs--more,
actually, than arms or legs. Almost as much as face--always
included as extension of the rest of the body. They're actually
quite handy. And Elidi and I almost had a brawl in a sky-room.

Elidi says, "And someone strong could 'bob' in place."

Mnemosyne shrinks down. "There's sky rooms?"

Appolonia seems to be sensing a trend with Elidi...

Elidi grins at Dante.

Astraea chuckles. Okay, telling folks about sky rooms is another
thing y'all can help with. ;) Yes. Type 'up' in any of the town
rooms.

Minowee ohyeahs. "Just to note: I think most Empyrean wings would
bear some resemblance to the wings of eagles. Why? Eagle wings
are designed for soaring rather than flapping. It's /really/ not
sensible to do a lot of flapping, not when you're this large. The
amount of air that would move around would keep it from being
very fast or very efficient."

Eris says, "I could buy that."

Appolonia nods

Minowee says, "Eagle wings being long, broad, and 'notched' at
the end for extra lift. Everyone recognizes those splayed
pinions."

Eris says, "That'd be a pretty huge wingspan, though. Taking off
or landing from your typical street would be sort of unreal, I
was thinking, the other day."

Raziel hesitates... if you start to explain wings based on what's
possible, you very quickly hit 'well, -none- of this is possible,
really.' Lifting off the ground would be impossible. Even gliding
after jumping off a cliff would be hard.

Astraea hmms at some vague thought. Could be interesting if
Empyreans have different types of wings. Those who end up being
warriors may have wings that look more like an eagle's or other
bird of prey, whereas the 'passive' types get dove-like wings or
whatnot.

Eris sells fairy dust on the street corner!

Dante says, "Eagle, buteo, vulture. Those are the basic designs
we want. Maybe harrier at the extreme, and more smaller hawks or
owls for Hawks."

Eris says, "Not gonna get any barnswallow wings, anyway."

Raziel says, "That was a discussion right after we opened for
soft-RP. 'What sort of bird's wings would so-and-so have...'"

Minowee says, "Well, no, none of it's possible. I don't think a
human body could support the sheer muscle mass it takes to power
those wings. This ties in with an idea I had earlier involving
magic, but I'm not going to go into that now."

Minowee says, "What are those marsh hawk things, Dante? Short,
broad wings for maneuverability? --And wing type would run in the
family, wouldn't it? So you'd have great big families full of
people with similar wings."

Astraea says,  "Anyway, I think we're getting sidetracked on this
tangent about wings and whatnot. Raziel's right. It's all fantasy
to begin with, so let's not worry *too* much about what's more
likely than something else."

Eris says, "Kind of like body type or height I guess."

Raziel nods. "We fly, because we take ourselves lightly. ;)

Diana says, "Actually what about a tendency towards addiction to
a certain thing. We could implement peddlers and add another
element into the purity of the Empyrean race. In the ancient
Greek myth of Odysseus, there was the lethal lotus plant. Perhaps
we could have something like that here?""

Dante says, "Even with hollow bones, the pecs for flight have to
be massive. Each wing about as long as the whole person's height
and a keel breastbone to support the massive pectoral
musculature. People aren't designed for flight. We can't worry.
It's not actually possible, so don't stress.


Astraea hmms to Diana. That's a possibility. Oh boy. Let's make
all Empys drug addicts. ;)

Andromache heys at Diana. Interesting. Empys on dream-drugs.

Minowee says, "Okay, scratch that silent bit. --Explaining
fantasy with science actually isn't that bad a thing, in
moderation. Writing everything off to magic is kind of a cop
out."

Andromache says, "We could all be like Tiberius."

Minowee ohboys. Drugs. I was waiting for drugs to come into this.

Appolonia laughs!

Diana laughs.

Eris sells MORE fairy dust! Woohoo!

Dante says, "This is getting a tad loopy. Meeting adjourned, or
what?"

Shadow would still like to get some TP ideas, or whatnot in the
air, if nothing else.

Astraea says,  "That could be an interesting TP to introduce
though. Some peddlar starts selling something that affects
Empyreans in particular. An opiate-type thing? I know next to nil
about drugs and whatnot."

Dante waves. Till later.

Dante has disconnected.

Appolonia says, "Coffee. ;)"

Eris says, "Why would it have to be Empyreans in particular
though?"

Minowee says, "Opiates would be good. Highly addictive."

Eris says, "Or is that because this is, um, an Empy meeting. ;)"

Minowee says, "Opiates are even more addictive than chocolate.
Woo!"

Raziel hrms. "Coffee sounds like something the Varati would
drink.

Astraea says,  "Well, I s'pose it wouldn't have to be."

Appolonia says, "Something Delphi bans because they think its a
highly addictive drug that we get really cranky if we don't have
;)"

Andromache says, "Empys seem more likely to lounge around and do
nothing but drug themselves."

Mnemosyne says, "Poppy flowers = opium. :>"

Eris says, "How about something that's supposed to help your
flying or something. Performance drug, kinda."

Andromache says, "Steroids?"

Eris says, "With interesting side effects. ;)"

Minowee says, "It could be that there's some sort of recessive
gene attached to wings that causes a weakness to this particular
drug...."

Eris says, "Well WHATEVER it is it has to have side effects! ...
Viagra. Yeah."

Appolonia ROTFLS

Pantoleon says, "Delphi bans us from doing something?? There's a
political TP right there. :-)"

Andromache says, "Hey, yeah."

Pantoleon lols at Eris...

Astraea says,  "Ooh. Then you get Geri and co. involved, since
Empys would have to get it on the 'black market,' and we all know
she's a pir--er, merchant."

Raziel says, "how about a drug that's purported to enhance magic?
Empyreans would kill for something like that. Particularly those
who think they could develop elemental powers."

Astraea says,  "Oh, I like that, Raziel."

Appolonia says, "Oooh, good call Raz."

Diana smiles, "Perhaps it hampers the inhibitions, making
Empyreans act and speak before thinking first. it could increase
tension among the races if the prim and proper Empyreans began
behaving brash and somewhat tactless."

Eris ponders side effects. "I strongly suggest paranoia as a side
effect for /anything/." >:)

Astraea says,  "Paranoia is certainly good."

Eris says, "That'd increase tension nicely, too. Hee hee."

Diana loves paranoia.

Minowee says, "Hampering inhibitions would probably help out with
the 'magic-enhancing' bit, too."

Astraea says,  "Could be interesting if this 'magic-drug'
actually *does* let one exhibit magical powers--if only for a
brief time, and they're extremely hard to control. Hmm. I'd have
to talk to the rest o' the admin about that one, but it's
certainly something to think about."

Raziel votes against something that lowers inhibitions. It might
be fun, but losing Empyrean standoffishness would be a loss to
the game, I think.

Minowee is slow, and laggy, and probably sounds like an idiot
over here. Pardon her. "Mages might tackle larger jobs that they
usually might stay away from for fear of consumption."

Appolonia says, "Good Minowee."

Raziel says, "It'd have to be done carefully, to prevent abuse.
And then we'd have to decide -- is the drug socially acceptable
or not?"

Pantoleon says, "Not a brief time, Star, you'd build up a
tolerance and need more."

Eris says, "ARE there jobs for mages? Large jobs?... It sounds
like that'd only really involve magic-oriented people, which
could be limiting."

Appolonia says, "Nope."

Appolonia says, "DO you know how many noble Empyreans would KILL
to be able to exhibit air elementalism? ;)"

Shadow says, "And, of course, what would happen to someone who
-can- already use magic?"

Astraea says,  "Perhaps the side effects could change depending
on the person. We could provide a list o' possibilities, and the
person using the drug gets to pick and choose what side effects
he/she displays. Would make tracking it down harder too."

Diana likes that idea Star.

Astraea likes Shadow's comment too--what *would* this drug do to
mages? Could be interesting. :)

Raziel pokes Andromache. "Pregnant females would take it, hoping
their babies have magic." He bites his lip. "Maybe it does so,
sometimes. Maybe it causes unfortunate darkening of feathers
sometimes...."

Minowee replies to Raziel in a really belated sort of way. The
bit about social acceptance. "It could be fine at first, then
revealed to have bad side-effects and become socially
unacceptable. But then people would already be horribly addicted
to it...."

Astraea says,  "Or deformed children... yikes."

Minowee eeks. Crack babies.

Appolonia says, "Wingless babies!!!"

Eris says, "AAAAIEEE!"

Astraea oohs!

Raziel faints dead away

Eris says, "Yeah. >:)"

Minowee says, "It could cause darkies. :)"

Shadow says, "Kewl..."

Andromache hides.

Minowee says, "Or ... or ... or pointed ears. >:)"

Liora likes the dark wings... would explain a lot ;)

Diana likes!

Astraea says,  "Well, those side effects could be varied too."

Appolonia sees the age-old practice of 'exposure' once again
gaining popularity ;)

Astraea chuckles. Yep.

Raziel can't Imagine the effects on the first noble house that
produced a wingless baby. House Archeus would've gotten off easy,
comparatively.

Eris says, "You could have it slowly darken your own wing color
through time."

Eris says, "Like, at your next molt after you start using it,
black feathers start coming in. <gasp!>"

Eris says, "Empyreans molt, right? o_o"

Appolonia says, "Nifty :)"

Astraea chuckles. And we thought puberty was bad *enough*. ;)

Minowee says, "Empyreans /should/ molt, anyway. o.o"

Andromache was wondering about the molting bit, I mean, they have
to regrow feathers somehow.

Minowee says, "Big molts at puberty. Like losing your baby teeth.
Cool."

Astraea says,  "Uh, I s'pose. Molting is just shedding feathers
and growing new ones, right?"

Minowee says, "Right."

Appolonia says, "But usually all at once. :)"

Minowee says, "Well, not all at once. Primary feathers will fall
out in matched pairs."

Eris says, "They have to. Maybe not all at once, but they must
molt. Big molts at puberty? Heheh. The Empyrean equivalent of bad
acne... fewer feathers. ;)"

Astraea chuckles at the thought of a featherless Empyrean.
Sheesh. I imagine they wouldn't go out in public much then.

Minowee says, "So that the Empy never really loses flight."

Raziel imagines that'd we'd not actually molt. It's not like we
have a 'winter plumage' and a 'summer plumage' just lose feathers
occasionally, and have new ones grow in.

Eris says, "If they fell out ALL at once you'd have a lot of
naked birds turning into lunch out there in RL. ;)"

Minowee grins.

Astraea says,  "I think sickness would be one reason for molting
though. That's something to keep in mind. Or too much stress."

Eris says, "Molting can be slow and continuous or seasonal, yeah.
Presumably we'd have the former."

Astraea nods to Eris. Slow and continuous, I think.

Andromache says, "Ooh, people who get stressed get bald patches
on their wings. Neat."

Raziel says, "Wasn't Justinius having trouble with losing
feathers?"

Minowee says, "Well, he was old."

Astraea says,  "Yeah. Old Empys lose feathers (just like men lose
their hair). ;)"

Tiberius wonders if Empy's feather-pluck themselves like some
birds do in a really bad nervous habit?

Eris says, "Wing pattern baldness?? O_O"

Diana needs to head out as she has guests arriving in a few.
"Ciao."

Minowee says, "I think old birds to tend to lose feathers, too,
so.... Male pattern baldness. ;)"

Astraea wonders if Empys preen.

Andromache says, "Well, some people pull their hair out,
Tiber..."

Minowee says, "They'd have to."

Eris says, "Gotta preen."

Raziel says, "We'd have to, sort of. Feathers have to remain
oiled."

Tiberius says, "How sensitive /are/ the wings, anyway?"

Minowee says, "They probably have special picks for it, too.
That's how I've been playing it."

Mnemosyne says, "Nervous or disturbed Empy's pull out their
feathers :>"

Eris says, "Sensitive to what?"

Astraea says,  "What do you mean, Tiber?"

Tiberius says, "Heat, cold, pain-- more so than the rest of the
body? Would it be like, say, stepping on a cat's tail, or hitting
a funny bone, to bang them into something?"

Diana has disconnected.

Minowee says, "Self-destructive behavior, Nem? Like people who
pick scabs compulsively. :)"

Astraea hmms. I'm afraid I don't know much about birds, but I
imagine they'd be about as sensitive as a bird's wings.

Appolonia hrms.

Cepheus enters the grand hall from the branches of the World Ash
beyond.

Cepheus has arrived.

Astraea says,  "Any bird experts in here?"

Mnemosyne says, "Birds do it also... like those who have been
mistreated pull out their breast feathers."

Tiberius looks to Eris. How sensitive are bird wings?

Raziel says, "Most of the wing surface would be feather. Imagine
getting a fingernail bent backwards. There is a blood vessel
going part way down the shaft of a feather, though."

Astraea waves to Ceph.

Minowee isn't /entirely/ sure. "I know that there are clusters of
nerves at the bases of some feathers."

Eris says, "Feathers don't feel anything. Think of it like your
hair... if you tug on your hair, or it bumps into something, you
sort of feel it."

Andromache says, "There aren't blood vessels in hair, though."

Eris says, "And when a feather's coming in brand new, like to
replace a molted one? THEN that feather's extra sensitive.
Itchy... irritating, maybe. And if it breaks, instead of being
hollow, it could bleed."

Eris says, "Feathers neither, once they're mature."

Eris says, "And if you yank a feather it hurts LOTS of course.
Yeowch!"

Minowee says, "Oh, yeah, feathers themselves don't feel anything.
So, yeah, they would be generally aware of the positions of their
feathers themselves (helps when you can't see the backs of your
wings), and of touches on feathered areas that move the feathers,
etc. I think I'm rambling/reiterating."

Eris says, "Molting is just itchy in general."

Raziel nods. "Pulling out a wing feather would probably hurt a
lot more than yanking out a hair.

Astraea says,  "So what about when feathers fall out? Does that
hurt? When Empys 'molt' I guess...?"

Eris says, "Heck yeah."

Appolonia says, "No, it's like hair falling out."

Eris says, "When they fall out naturally, it doesn't hurt."

Mnemosyne says, "Depends on how sensitive you are also..."

Appolonia says, "If they're 'new ' feathers, it'd hurt to have
them plucked."

Astraea nods. Okay...

Appolonia says, "Try plucking a parrot's feathers. They screech
at you :)"

Tiberius also wonders how 'feather-like' Empy hair is?

Eris says, "And when the feather is ready to fall out, it itches
a bit, which makes you tend to want to yank it out. Kind of like
a loose tooth. Worrisome."

Andromache imagines...instead of nuzzling and being cute in
public, Empy couples could preen each others' wings.

Raziel awwws.

Minowee has been assuming that Empy hair is like ordinary hair.
Maybe finer and softer than, say, Varati hair.

Eris says, "Having a feather forcibly yanked always hurts, in my
experience."

Astraea chuckles and likes that, Andi.

Astraea nods to Minowee. That sounds about right.

Eris says, "Not with my own feathers, but with my parrot. ;)
She's very into the preening thing."

Astraea says,  "It might be somewhat 'downy,' but generally like
regular hair."

Minowee likes that too, Andi. :)

Eris says, "It'd make sense."

Appolonia says, "Babyfine Empyrean hair."

Raziel has a feeling we're about to have an explosion of
preening. ;)

Shadow waves.

Andromache says, "Blond hair is finer than dark hair anyway."

Shadow has left.

Tiberius figures preening is sort of like ...kissing or
something. Would you DO that in public?

Astraea says,  "Depends on the couple, I s'pose."

Andromache makes a face at Tiber. I see people doing that all the
time in public.

Eris says, "Humans pet each other's hair and stuff in public.
That's the same kind of preening monkeys do. ;)"

Raziel says, "You'd have to, if your feathers get ruffled, and
you want to fly."

Astraea hopes Empys don't go looking for bugs in each others'
feathers.

Minowee thinks of something, belatedly. "Empyrean wings would
probably be /less/ sensitive to cold/heat. There's got to be air
trapped between the feathers, which would act as insulation. Of
course, they'd probably overheat on hot days."

Andromache says, "I don't have bugs in my feathers!"

Eris says, "Feathers also protect from heat in some ways,
Minowee."

Raziel thinks preening, on some level, would have to be done
fairly often, and thus wouldn't be too private.

Tiberius says, "So you'd... hey, /do/ Empys pick up the avian
equivalent of lice?"

Eris says, "Presumably Empyreans bathe more often than your
average bird. :)"

Mnemosyne says, "That's what servants/slaves are for right? To
clean our feathers?"

Minowee says, "Well, yeah, but when the body temperature rises,
so would the temperature inside the feathers."

Liora giggles, and pictures Empy's picking nits out of each
others feathers. Yeck.

Eris says, "My parrot takes a shower every day or two, and SHE
never gets any buggies."

Astraea nods. Actually, that's one thing I wasn't sure of. The
bathing bit. Empys like to be clean, but isn't it dangerous to
get wings wet too often? I'm not really sure. Anyone know much
about water-birds?

Raziel thinks perhaps that'd explain why we have public baths.

Eris says, "Either way, Minowee, feather position helps them
thermoregulate for cold, and also (to a point) in direct sun."

Appolonia says, "Waterfowl have oily feathers."

Andromache says, "You could oil the feathers if you couldn't
produce enough, too."

Minowee says, "There's nothing wrong with wetting the wings
frequently as long as the down doesn't stay damp for long enough
periods of time for mold to grow."

Raziel shakes his head. "Feathers dry just fine."

Eris says, "It shouldn't be dangerous. My bird can still
basically fly even when she's sop-soaking wet (as the splash
marks on my apartment walls prove...)"

Appolonia nods to Minowee "But waterlogged wings will make sure
you can't fly."

Minowee rights, at Eris.

Astraea hmms and nods. Wings have to be oily, right?

Eris says, "She also loves hairdryers, but us Empys can't use
those. ;)"

Appolonia laughs!

Andromache says, "Not icky slimy oily, but there's oil present."

Eris says, "Sure, but a water bath won't de-oil you."

Astraea nods. That's what I thought.

Minowee is really slow here, sorry. -.-;;  "Right. Too wet, too
heavy, and you can't get off the ground. And yeah, oily wings
will dry faster."

Eris says, "Preening puts all the oil back where it's supposed to
be."

Appolonia says, "Right."

Appolonia says, "Wing oil. I love it. :)"

Minowee says, "I wouldn't expect to see water rolling off
Empyrean wings like duckwings, though."

Eris says, "Well, yeah."

Raziel nods. "Yep. They do have to be oiled. That's what birds
are doing, when they stick their beak under their tail feathers.
Getting a good coat of oil on it. I don't think that'd be
appropriate Empyreal behavior ,though.

Appolonia says, "Anyone grow olive trees?"

Eris sells bottled wing oil on the street corner!

Appolonia says, "We can be the reason the Romans were so nuts
about Olives ;)"

Minowee says, "Delphi has olive trees. :P"

Appolonia says, "We're the reason why!"

Minowee laughs at Apple. Tee hee.

Astraea nods. Well, with Empy culture resembling Greek/Roman, I
figure olives would be a big thing. Didn't ancient Greeks oil
themselves up?

Eris says, "We'd just naturally /make/ the right kind of oil I'm
sure. :>"

Raziel nods. Yes, the Greeks did. Nice and shiny.

Mnemosyne says, "perhaps it's a gladiatorial thing"

Appolonia says, "Ancient Greeks and Romans would use oil and sand
instead of soap and water to clean themselves."

Eris GLEAMS! <ding> <twinkle>

Minowee says, "Someone or another would oil themselves and then
scrape it off, yeah."

Tiberius says, "Yeah-- they used butter for medicine-- the
Romans, that is. Nice and greasy."

Appolonia says, "It was gross :)"

Eris points out, "Of course, too much oil will mess with your
flying too..."

Appolonia says, "You pour oil on yourself, it traps the dirt,
then you scrape it off with something that looked like a plastic
spoon."

Minowee says, "Right."

Mnemosyne says, "oh that's right... added oil when bathing then
scraped it off. speculum, I think the scraper was called..."

Astraea chuckles. Hmm. Well, I s'pose 'oiling' oneself up can be
up to the individual player.

Eris says, "Lysippos, 'The Scraper'. @_@"

Appolonia grins.

Mnemosyne ooopses.

Elidi says, "ICK! LOL"

Minowee hehhehhehs at Star. "There's a new +term, though.
Speculum. I think?"

Astraea says,  "Sure."

Astraea jots.

Mnemosyne wants her Latin dictionary. ;>

Tiberius dies from spam. No, seriously, early morning tomorrow.
Night.

Minowee ooos.

Eris says, "Um, a speculum is more of a medical device, I
thought..."

Astraea waves to Tiber. :)

Tiberius has disconnected.

Astraea says,  "Actually, unless anyone has some other subjects
they want to bring up, I may as well officially 'adjourn' this
meeting. Y'all are welcome to hang around and continue
chatting/brainstorming though."

Minowee is fine with adjourning.

Liora has left.

Appolonia waves to everyone else. :)

Astraea says,  "Thanks for showing up then, everyone. :)"

Minowee waves too.

Astraea turns off her log.

FIN